Linus Torvalds interview, part three: 'All my daughter wanted for Christmas was a polymerase chain reaction machine'

In the final part of a three-part interview, Linux creator and Millennium Technology Prize winner Linus Torvalds talks about the new frontiers of technology - and the 'benefits' of his own 'cult of personality'

Q. What technology do you consider has brought about the biggest changes to life as we live it today?

You can't make a big difference in technology without actually changing people's lives to some degree.

I could try to talk about some big serious issue (such as 'curing cancer'), but for me it's really pretty simple: the biggest thing is how we're finally getting to the point where "data is just data", and we don't have all these insane special communications channels for different forms of data. We have one main channel, and all the different forms of data just hook up to that single channel.

I detest phones and fax machines. I think traditional TV is just horrid. In the end it's all just data and I really love how we are finally trying to treat it that way. Yes, I carry a mobile phone, but I really used to detest those things. I hated carrying around this device that was literally designed to interrupt me at any time and any point in my life.

I felt bad about hating mobile phones. I'm from Finland, after all - the land of Nokia - where people feel naked without their mobile. But, to me, they were the tool of the devil.

My current mobile? I love it, and I don't even think of it as a phone any more. It's really not the phone part that makes me carry it around, and its main purpose in life is no longer to be able to interrupt me wherever I am. Now it's a way to access data in its various forms, and it's so obviously about that. I don't even know how many minutes my plan has, because that's not how those things get used. The only thing that matters is the data plan.

I don't watch much TV, but that's the same way: when I travel, and end up in front of a TV that actually is designed to watch live TV at, it just annoys me. We were travelling when the kids were small, and their reaction to a TV in the hotel room was to ask us how to rewind the TV stream. They'd never seen a TV that just showed the TV signal before, they'd only ever seen it in a DVR form at home.

This may sound like a really petty complaint, and I think it is, but the prime example of it is actually this series of emails I'm sending you: I really don't much like voice communications, and I'm so happy that we're moving towards a world where pretty much everybody has email, and you can reach them that way instead. And there is only one connection you really need to care about - the internet. It's all the same.

And that electronic communication is what made Linux possible in the first place, of course.

Q. Where are the new frontiers in technology, what trends are exciting you now, again this can be in your field and any others that have struck you as being of particular interest?

I'll just mention one anecdotal example. My oldest daughter, Patricia, is 15. For the past few years she's shown a fair amount of interest in genetics, which I've obviously tried to encourage. So she's been to summer camps, read books about it, and just generally been very interested in it.

So she mentions that maybe she'd like to get a PCR machine for Christmas because she's used them at the summer camps (PCR stands for 'polymerase chain reaction'. It's a way to create lots of copies of a specific DNA sequence, so that you can amplify a particular sequence and thus look for specific DNA signatures).

I thought she was kidding (I still think she was not entirely serious), but it turns out that you can actually start to do some of these kinds of biochemistry labs at home. No, it's not sequencing DNA yet, but these kinds of technologies are clearly starting to come together.

Q. Finland is a country with a global reputation for science, technology and innovation. Why do you think it has become so prominent in these areas?

I can only really speak from my personal experience, but judging by that, I'd say that one of the major reasons is cultural.

I think Finns really do appreciate education and innovation, and when it is also coupled with a very egalitarian society, you then end up with a very high level of general education, not just centres of excellence. I think that explains why a fairly small country can produce much higher levels of science and technology than you'd expect purely on size alone.

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Linus Torvalds interview, part three: 'All my daughter wanted for Christmas was a polymerase chain reaction machine'

In the final part of a three-part interview, Linux creator and Millennium Technology Prize winner Linus Torvalds talks about the new frontiers of technology - and the 'benefits' of his own 'cult of personality'

I also have a personal suspicion that Finnish society is pretty tolerant of introverts (in fact, some people would probably half-jokingly argue that all Finns are introverts, although I think that's changing), and I do think that that is a fertile ground for tinkering with technology.

Of course, the "introverted people living in a country with long dark winters" argument has been used as an explanation for pretty much every Finnish tradition, particularly drinking.

Q. What's the story behind the Linux logo and mascot ‘Tux'?

There are various stories behind it, including (the true story) that I was bitten by a penguin in real life. Admittedly the penguin was a small fairy penguin at a zoo (and at roughly half a kilo and 30 centimetres tall that really isn't very scary, nor did it hurt or draw blood), so it wasn't a traumatic or life-changing experience.

It all boils down to the fact that I wanted to have a friendly and very approachable logo for Linux, not something traditional and sterile. That kind of implies some kind of cute animal approach. And I like penguins, too...

I can't draw anything myself, but I posted a public message asking for people to draw a fat, happy penguin sitting down:

"... So when you think 'penguin', you should be imagining a slightly overweight penguin, sitting down after having gorged itself, and having just burped. It's sitting there with a beatific smile - the world is a good place to be when you have just eaten a few gallons of raw fish and you can feel another "burp" coming..."

The full original message is archived in various places.

Q. What's your take on some of the big names in modern computing, such as Steve Jobs and Bill Gates?

I really don't think of myself in that group of people. To me, the "big names" in modern computing aren't actually the tycoons, it's the people like Dennis Ritchie (who passed away last year, who was very close to Steve Jobs, but without all the news brouhaha) and Ken Thompson - the two original authors of Unix.

I see myself more as a technical person than as an "industry" person, even if that does mean that I identify with a slightly less well-known group of people.

Q. There was almost something of a "cult of the personality" associated with Jobs and Gates, and their brands and employees. Do you feel there is a similar identification of yourself in the Linux community?

I've certainly been more than just a technical person, but also a figurehead for the whole Linux thing.

I don't think I really can (or would want to) take the cult quite as far as Jobs, but clearly there's some similarity in the fact that I've been a focal point, not just in the technical sense, but also the "human face" for the stories around it. And while I consider my job as technical lead for the kernel to be my main "job", I do see talking with journalists (or preferably, emailing) to be part of my role when it comes to Linux.

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Linus Torvalds interview, part three: 'All my daughter wanted for Christmas was a polymerase chain reaction machine'

In the final part of a three-part interview, Linux creator and Millennium Technology Prize winner Linus Torvalds talks about the new frontiers of technology - and the 'benefits' of his own 'cult of personality'

Q. You work at home on doing what you love best, which is an enviable position for anyone to be in, could you describe for us your typical day?

Oh, that's pretty easy. A typical day starts at 7:30 when I get up to see the kids off to school (they're big enough that this mainly involves turning on the coffee maker and starting to make coffee). By the time the kids are off, I'm usually on my second or third cup of coffee, and sitting in my ratty bathrobe in my office above the garage, reading and answering email, taking a break every hour or two to make more coffee.

Incidentally, when I say coffee, I don't mean just any swill. I take my coffee seriously, and have a high-end cappuccino maker that makes a good latte at the press of a button, including freshly grinding and tamping the coffee from beans that have been roasted recently. The coffee part is important.

And that's about as exciting as it gets. Seriously. I sit in front of the computer all day. Sometimes the FedEx guy shows up with a new book for me (or fabrics for Tove, or whatever) and, hopefully, I've got dressed by then or he doesn't need a signature because, quite frankly, it's embarrassing to have to open the door at 2pm still in your bathrobe, but it happens. I suspect the FedEx people think I'm some crazy unemployed slob...

The kids are usually home by 4pm or so in the afternoon and that, in turn, can imply some driving around from or to gymnastics or ballet or whatever other things they are doing. Generally, I try to get most of my work done in the mornings, so afternoons are less about sitting constantly in front of the computer. I also slow down my coffee drinking after 3pm.

My normal day really isn't glamorous. At weekends, we sleep in later, but they otherwise look fairly similar.

The great part (well, one of them) about working on Linux is that it isn't a 9-to-5 job. I can take the day off if I need to, or several days, for that matter. If it's a particularly busy time I will have a laptop and can get my job done almost anywhere. But during calmer periods I just tell some of the people I work most closely with that I'll be gone for a few days, just so that they'll be aware of it.

Q. Were you aware of the Millennium Technology Prize and does it have an impact in Finland?

I was aware of the prize mainly through Henry Tirri (who I know from my time at Helsinki University). I am honoured to be on the shortlist of laureates for the 2012 Millennium Technology prize. It is one the world's most important awards for advancements in technology that impact human life and culture.

Q. You have won a significant number of scientific prizes and awards, including the Millennium Technology Prize 2012. What benefits can these bring to your work?

It means that I have things to hang up on my walls, so my office is less bare.

I think the real benefit (which I'm not sure is the right word in this context) is that feeling that everybody wants to have of simply being appreciated. It's not like I walk around looking at them (I suspect the most common reminder is my best friend in the neighbourhood often pointing out that he has a "real" PhD, not just that honorary kind). At the same time, we all have this yearning for recognition and the fact that I get it makes me very happy with my life.

Of course, some of the prizes come with more or less substantial direct benefits in the form of actual money. I'm a well-paid professional - and I won't claim that money doesn't matter. It may not be my primary motivator, but at the same time, I absolutely don't want to have to worry about money either. I'd much rather worry about technical issues than about how to pay for a leaking roof or my kids' education.

So, for example, the remodel we did that moved my office up above the garage, was largely paid for by the C&C Prize. Could we have done it without it? Yes. But the prize money turned it into something we didn't have to worry about.

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Linus Torvalds interview, part three: 'All my daughter wanted for Christmas was a polymerase chain reaction machine'

In the final part of a three-part interview, Linux creator and Millennium Technology Prize winner Linus Torvalds talks about the new frontiers of technology - and the 'benefits' of his own 'cult of personality'

Q. Your influence has been acclaimed in the pages of Time , Business Week and other major publications; you also had the asteroid 9793 Torvalds named after you. Which of these by-products of success are you most puzzled or amused by?

Of all the incidental things that have come with Linux and fame, the one I think I enjoy the most is not so much any particular issue, but the larger thing: just the opportunities that have made it possible to experience many things I wouldn't otherwise have ever been invited to or been able to do.

For example, I never really wanted to write a book, but I have to say, the whole experience of writing one with David Diamond was very enjoyable. It's not likely something I'd do again, but it was an opportunity that came to me through this all, and it was fun and different. And I've been able to travel a fair bit, and got to go places I wouldn't have been to otherwise.

So it's the experiences I think that I enjoy the most. The fact that I can say that I spent 15 very uncomfortable minutes with a flower in my mouth, looking into the sun while trying not to go blind, because the particular professional photographer wanted to get a particular "look". Or being invited to the President's Castle Ball for Finnish Independence Day (unless you grew up in Finland, you probably don't understand how that's both boring and special). Or being at an Oscars pre-party, watching my wife annoy Warren Beatty.

None of those things have anything directly to do with Linux, but all of them are kind of random things I've been able to do thanks to Linux. Yes, I spend much of my life in a ratty bathrobe, but I do get to take the occasional break from those things too.

Linus Torvald was in conversation with Technology Academy Finland, the body that awards the Millennium Technology Prize, which he won last year.

This is the final part of a three-part interview.

Part one: From VIC-20 to Raspberry Pi

Part two: Linus Torvalds on Linux and the future of computing